"Dance feminine, glance feminine, act and sigh feminine
Compliment his masculinity, that's what every girl should know
If she wants to find a beau."
I had my ipod on shuffle today and that song came on- it's a little Disney song called "Femininity" and the girl singing it is Hayley Mills. I found it rather amusing so decided to share a bit of it. I'm guessing it's from the '60s, since that's around the time she acted in movies. It actually kind of got me thinking about the concept of femininity- which is something I believe has become obsolete in today's society. It is interesting to me that the feminist movement has done nothing but deprived women of our femininity- "I can do anything a man can do!" Hmm. I don't think I can do anything a man can do. Sure, I can have a career, and make money and be successful. I can even be President of the United States. But I'm physically weaker than men (well, most of them...), I have crazy mood swings every month, I can have babies, etc... so I think that makes us different. To say there is no difference between the sexes- I think that this frustrates me more than anything. Why are there two *different* sexes if there is no difference? Heck if there isn't a difference let's just do away with having men and women competing separately in the Olympics or any sports arena- wonder who'll come out on top. Anyway. I'm not really in the mood to elaborate on anything right now because I really don't have anything close to intelligent to say, and I think I have posted on this subject before. Just something I was thinking about today. So if you have any opinions feel free to share them.
I have been too lazy this weekend. If there is nothing pressing due in the next week, it is so easy to let things go. I should be getting ahead on work!
I'll be going to CFC again tomorrow- by myself. :( Hopefully I'll run into Melissa again, or someone. None of this sitting-in-church-by-myself awkwardness! I'll let ya know how it goes. ;) Have a good Super Bowl weekend everyone! (Now who's playing again??)
13 comments:
I love your thoughts on this subject, but want you to expand on them... : )
Thanks! Just curious, is this Ellie or McKenna? :) If you read a post I wrote on July 11 last year, I talked a little more about the subject. I guess you could call the feminist movement a pet peeve of mine, considering I've posted on it twice. Perhaps someday I will write a better post on it. Sometimes I rush too much when I have something interesting to talk about, and probably could take more time to organize my thoughts. :) Do you have a blog, btw?
Hey Nat,
Was interested to read your post and wanted to write a bit. (That said, take no offense as I mean none and it is completely unintentional if it sounds that way...)
I may be slightly pessimistic (or just looking for reason to fault the lyrics), but my interpretation of the Hayley Mills' song (and I realize you might not agree with it in the first place) is: In order to gain the attention of the opposite sex, one must be the model accessory. That irks me just a little bit (especially as there aren't any songs about the man being the perfect compliment to a woman's femininity).
I would definitely call myself a feminist (more of a classical feminist, but a feminist nonetheless) and found what you had to say intriguing. I guess except for some extremists, I always approach the feminist movement not as being about "I can do everything a man can do", but "I should have the same rights and garner the same amount of respect as a man." There are still discrepancies in the system. We categorically do worse in sciences and math in education, and continually receive lower compensation than men for our work (Though with the passage of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act this past week, perhaps that will change).
I believe that some women have taken their feminist zeal too far (in that they no longer want to recognize the differences between the sexes), but I do not believe that we have lost sight of femininity completely. It seems to me that we let the over -enthusiastic and -zealous minority speak for the majority (as in "all men are chauvinist pigs" as a generalization).
I wanted to comment on sexual dimorphism, but I've packed my books away and don't want to say anything to that effect without solid references in front of me as biology is not one of my strong suits... ;) Granted, it is known that we (as women) on average have more lower body strength than men, so perhaps it's just a different kind of strength (once again highlighting the difference between the sexes)?
Oh, the point of that song is definitely how to gain the attention of men. I probably should have put that disclaimer up. I mainly put it up because it got me thinking about the concept of femininity, and because I think that it's quite laughable to think about hearing a song like that in a modern-day movie. I'm pretty sure people probably would have taken that song quite seriously 40 years ago.
I respect your opinion, not necessarily agreeing with it but I respect it. I think I find myself frustrated when people continually look for ways to be victims. While I think it's wrong for a woman to get paid less in a the same position where a man is getting better pay, I think that this is not something we can exactly call oppression (I'm not implying that you think of it as oppression). Never in any way, shape, or form, have I ever had doors closed to me because I am a woman, or even been discriminated against because I am a woman. I can pursue the career of my choice (and in a female-dominated field too, I might add, where men are the ones receiving the discrimination). I know of girls my age who are self-proclaimed feminists who believe that we deserve certain things because we have been oppressed in the past. When have we, at the young age of 21, ever been oppressed as women? I'm not saying that you have ever had these opinions, I'm just letting you know that's where I'm coming from.
I definitely agree with you that some have taken the feminist movement way too far.
I think that also, the feminist movement has kept men from truly being men anymore. They don't know how to be men- how to provide for a wife, or pursue a woman they are interested in, or even show the respect that women deserve. Because we have blurred the lines between our roles. Yes, I do think that a woman's "place" is to raise her children at home, however I also don't see anything wrong with working part-time and having other interests. Our bodies are made for raising children. It amazes me how everything about us is made for bearing children- and I know that might offend you or someone else, and it is not intended to do so. That's part of the reason I chose nursing as a career, because it is a good "mom job." I do want to be able to have a job while I have children, but at the same time I recognize my role as a woman is different than that of a man's. You may not agree with that, and that's fine! I asked for opinions, and if you have anything else to say feel free. :) I hope I did not seem over-zealous. Don't worry- you weren't offensive at all, I just hope I wasn't either!
First off, thank your for the clarification on the lyrics! :)
Again, I will have to agree to disagree. I don't see a woman's place in the home necessarily. I have been confronted by some people on this because apparently I'm "not being honest with myself" and am "ignoring my maternal instincts" because I don't feel I am called to be a mother and I don't find anything wrong with that or see it as a problem. (Granted, these are the same people that insist I am not complete with out a man by my side. Silly people).
I would also suggest that if we are built to be maternal, why are men not considered built to be paternal? We never talk about boys 'fathering' their younger siblings' or give them dolls to socialize them in the ways of fatherhood.
I guess the anthropologist in me wants to argue for socialization, over nature... I see instincts as learned, not biological.
I would agree with you on the point of oppression. When was the last time you were oppressed? ;)
I have encountered more discrimination because of my skin color than because of my sex.
The song is from a little known Disney movie called Summer Magic (1963)...I know because I used to watch it a lot as a kid. That is funny that you have it on your ipod...not one of Hayley's more famous movies. But it's amusing for what it is.
The movie is also set in either the early 1920s or late 1910s...might give your debate some context.
-Jacob
Well I definitely agree with you that if you are called to be single then you are obviously not called to be a mother. I suppose that if you have children then I believe that is your highest calling. :) Don't worry, I may not even be called to be married and a mom either.
And about the paternalism thing, I think the main reason we don't encourage boys to "father" their siblings is that boys do not really have that nurturing instinct like we do (and I do not have the nurturing instinct as strongly as other girls, so I think we all have it to varying degrees). Maybe we should be encouraging guys to work with children more, and be training them up to be good fathers. Perhaps that is an area where the church has failed, and when men become fathers they don't really know how to handle it so they are emotionally absent much of the time. Interesting, you have given me something to think about! Thanks!
Oh and thanks for the comment Jacob! I have the classic Disney albums, so it has a lot of really random songs. There are even some from Bed knobs and Broomsticks, which is another random one.
Ah, feminity. One of my favorite discussions ever. Seriously. I don't mean to by whiny or adopt a "woe is me" attitude, but I struggle alot with what it looks like to be a woman today. And not that it's really alot harder than ever before... just different.
A few hundred years ago, we were being basically sold in marriage, dying in childbirth, seen as lowest on the social ladder, etc. So, I'm grateful for the women who have fought for freedom and equality.
Still, I am often worn out by the dual-demands placed on women - be focused and driven but also sexy and alluring. The Disney song is interesting... seems that we roll our eyes at those sorts of things, but still plaster on the make-up, slip on the heels, and play the game.
We are well-versed in the art of seduction... it's just a different sort. If you want a guy, impress him with both your resume and your appearance.... ok, I am completely generalizing. But you get the picture. And without going in to great detail, I think this idea could be supported in today's movies and tv which celebrate women like Sydney Bristow (Alias), Kate (Lost), pretty much any Angelina Jolie chracter, etc who kick ass and many to get any guy they want.
The Disney song rubs me wrong because it defines women by how they compliment men... yet, (and I risk pissing people off, I realize) in a sense, that's how the Bible defines us. We were created from Adam's rib. It wasn't good for him to be alone. We were created for a holy alliance, to fit together, uphold each other, reflect different aspects of God's character. The Hebrew word "Eliazar" which is used to describe Eve as Adam's helpmate is used in the rest of the Bible to describe God. This is not some massage-his-ego, serve-him-dinner, raise-his-kids kind of helper. Something about our femininity is meant to reflect our Father's relentless, upholding, unwavering help to his people. I don't think we were created to comform to some sort of "feminine ideal" just to get a guy (as the song suggests). This isn't about figuring out what we should do. It's about being who God created us to be.
Jesus was always spending time with women... He treated women differently throughout the gospels. He applauds their softness, vulnerability, desire, deep spiritual hungers, creativity.. women got him. I don't say this as some guy-bashing statement, but merely as an observation that our differences are affirmed by Christ.
I have a married friend who once told me that in a hard time when his world was falling apart, his wife said, "I would follow you anywhere." There is something very beautiful and strong about such a tender statement of ruthless trust and support. We do men a disservice by trying to be them. Our men need us to be women not just so that we "compliment his masculinity" but so that together we reflect the God who created us. What does this look like? I'm not sure exactly... I recognize I am a total romantic at heart and women are diverse in their personalities and temperments. I don't want to put people in boxes (and I don't think the Bible does that... just look at Deborah or Jael - some pretty kick ass women).
I once heard that in reflecting different aspects of God's nature, men possess a "gentle strength" and women a "strong gentleness." An interesting spin on the idea of complementing each other not as polar opposites but, rather, as emphasizing different aspects of our Creator. Our femininity is meant to bring Him glory, not catch a guy. And there's a lot of freedom in that, I think. I don't pretend to even begin to wrap this issue up neat and tidy.. only add some fuel to a much-needed fire of discussion.
Thanks Sarah! You definitely brought up some great points I hadn't thought about. I am beginning to think I should not have opened my discussion with that song though... I don't in any way think that song is what the ideal woman should be, I mainly found it amusing and it got me thinking about the concept. But like you said, we do roll our eyes at those concepts but at the same time I think we actually believe that if we play the part, we will "find a beau" (or perhaps that is just me?).
And I have to agree with you. Whether or not most of us are willing to admit it, I think we all try to gain guys' attention by "dressing up." It makes us feel feminine, sexy and attractive. And heck yes we definitely are doing it to draw attention to ourselves from the opposite sex... it isn't just so we can feel good about ourselves. I think if I'm honest with myself I have to admit that.
You are definitely right that we complement men. This does not mean we are all meant to bow down and worship our husbands (if ever we find any- ha!) for the rest of our lives, but one could argue that Eve was made for Adam. God did not look at Adam and create Eve just to see if they would possibly be good for each other. He said it wasn't good for the man to be alone, and that He would make a helper suitable FOR him. I think that is awesome- that doesn't make me feel like I'm lower than men, but it makes me stand in awe at what God did that day when He created us.
I haven't ever watched Alias or Lost, but I do know what you are talking about. A kick-ass, sexy woman- so I have to be both in order to get a man? And what's a man got to do to get a woman-- well, nothing, really (or maybe it only seems that way from my perspective, and I am merely generalizing here as well). We have reversed the roles and women have become the pursuers. I realize this takes the conversation down a completely different road so I won't expand on that anymore, but it frustrates me that we have to "send signals out" to gain the attention of guys. A guy won't approach a girl unless he is absolutely sure that he knows she is interested (generalizing of course)- which removes all risk and, in my opinion, the excitement of romance. However, we are part of the problem as well. Ok I said I wouldn't talk any more on the subject yet I did.
I like your analogy of the gentle strength, and strong gentleness. I haven't heard it put that way before, and I find it interesting. Quite honestly I'm not even sure what it means to have a strong gentleness, but if that perhaps represents an aspect of God, then it is a deepening relationship with Him that will bring this out. Hm. And you are right- our femininity is not simply meant to catch a guy. How quickly I forget the first catechism question that man's (or woman's) chief end is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever- so we should glorify Him with all He has given us. Why do we look for our ultimate satisfaction and fulfillment in men? It's frustrating.
I wish I knew exactly what it meant to be who God created me to be. Or exactly how to "do" that.
Whew! You guys (ok, you girls ;) ) have given me a lot to think about! I didn't realize how much discussion this would spark (or really, how passionate I actually feel about the subject), and I feel that my thoughts are terribly disorganized and, quite frankly, somewhat uninformed and I apologize for that. I do, however, speak from the heart. :)
And I just have to throw it out there I just heard Santa Fe on my ipod shuffle while I was writing that last comment- pretty much made my day. Carryin' the banner!
If you get sick of movies where women are Barbie dolls winning their men through the art of seduction, watch Alien (1979) and its sequel Aliens (1986). (Sigourney Weaver is one of the toughest heroines in cinema). She helped change the idea of women in horror movies from helpless screaming bimbos to resourceful and tough kick-ass ladies.
Also check out an enjoyable mockumentary called Made-Up, a movie about making a movie, which analyzes our cultural obsession with beauty. Very funny and enjoyable (even though it sometimes loses its footing as far its message is concerned).
My friend,
I was reminded of this post tonight as I was reading a new book. Have you heard of Leslie Ludy? She and her husband Eric wrote the book "When God Writes Your Love Story". The books that they write together are good, but the books that she has written alone are SO, SO good! Authentic Beauty is her first solo book. It has challenged me in such unique ways. Just today I bought her second book, Set-Apart Femininity. Already I am being convicted and encouraged. I feel very strongly about biblical femininity. Anyway, check out her books (if you haven't already). They should be at at the local bookstore. Also, she has a great website including a blog. www.setapartgirl.com
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